Loosing livestock

I have a question I keep loosing livestock and it is really starting to puzzle me. They are really sporadic. Recently I purchased a coral banded shrimp and a Tiger Conch about a week ago. i acclimated them for about a hour and half and them put them in the tank. After the first night I noticed that the shrimp was missing a claw he was good for about a week and then the day of the 4th i woke up and he was stone dead in a cave. The Conch is still doing really good. I have lost a lot of other livestock here or there seems like its really hit or miss.
All my water parameters are right on the money. I do a 5% water change every week. Any ideas?

how old is tank? Are u sure u weren't looking at his exoskeleton as they shed ? Do u have anemones?

What all fish do you have in yuor tank?

I pretty sure he is gone as he can't be found any where in the tank and i have been able to find him daily.
I have a bubble tip anemone.
Livestock I have Pacific blue tang, two particular clowns, and a Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse.
I did have a good outbreak of bristle worms the larger few were about the size of a pen, but slowly been taking them out with a forceps as them come out far enough to snag.

Has your problem been all stock or mostly Inverts?

my tank is about 9 months old.
I am loosing about 50/50 the inverts that i have lost is about the same as the livestock. Its almost like every other thing i buy dies and then next piece i buy does just fine.
I have lost 3 damels, a tail spot and a bi-color blennie. Gold headed sleeper golby.

Reefer wrote:my tank is about 9 months old.
I am loosing about 50/50 the inverts that i have lost is about the same as the livestock. Its almost like every other thing i buy dies and then next piece i buy does just fine.
I have lost 3 damels, a tail spot and a bi-color blennie. Gold headed sleeper golby.

The Gold Headed Goby does't surprise me. I had one for about a year then it got skinny and died. From what I' ve read they are difficult to feed even if they are eating food we give them they neeed lots of live pods all the time to maintain health. Not sure about your other livestock though. Damsels are pretty hardy.

If it was limited to inverts I'd say possible copper but since it's not...

Do you use RODI water or tap water?

Do you know what the local water treatment plan uses for cleaning the water? (Cloramines possible? Fargo is now showing they are using them so I need to change out a carbon block in the RODI)

After drip acclimating do you temp acclimate then release or just release to the tank?

Do you have an aggressive fish? You said Damsels right? I had a damsel that cost me about $250 in livestock before I tore the tank down to catch the PITA. You'd be surprised as to what they can actually kill...

Since it's summer I need to ask, what do you use for temp control? Do you have a controller or monitor on it to see if it spikes at all during the day?

My clowns seem aggressive towards some things, but not towards the coral band shrimp. My Pacific Blue also is suppose to be peaceful, but i see him being aggressive towards the clowns. I did see him go after the coral band shrimp but he flared up his claws and that was that.

I use tap water. I know a lot of people in salt water don't like using tap water. I haven't been able to purchase a RODI unit yet. hopefully this tax season i can fit one in the budget. I make 20 gallon batches of top off water and treat it with amquel.

When i acclimate I float them for 20 mins. and then empty them into a bucket and drip acclimate for about hour and half. I usually double the water quantity that i start with.

I dont have a temp controller my tank runs between 78-82 degrees. I have noticed my temp rise a lot more when the air conditioner is not on. I added a 6" fan in my sump to help keep the water at that 78-80 mark. I want to add a controller to my tank to fix the temp flux.

I have never lost a single coral. I have just had fish and inverts die.

What size tank do you have?

I know the tap water conditioner says it is safe, but you may want to consider buying RO water from the stores in your area or using Distilled which is a little better than RO but not as good as RODI (more expensive typically though). Unfortunately the tap water can contain everything from chemicals from runoff, heavy metals from transmission lines or household piping, and chlorines, chloramines, and other water treatment chemicals... The Amquel canot remove all of the impurities but an RODI typically can. Amquel is kinda like that little pill you drop in lake/river water when camping that makes it "safe" to drink...

Since they seem to live at least a few days this may be a moot point, but after dripping, have you measured the temp in the acclimation bucket compared to the tank? I typically float, drip, then float again as the ambient temp of the air is lower than the tank water and a slow drip canot keep the temp at the right temp in the acclimation bucket for me...

Regarding temps the hardest part is catching it at the hottest part of the day to see if it is at the right temps. Without some sort of controler the fan and heater will fight against each other and it isn't very efficient. I used to see swings up into the 86 mark before I got my controller, but I didn't lose any fish or inverts because of it...

You would think if there was a problem with the tap water it would affect the coral as well. I use the same acclimation technique as you and have had success . Cdness is right on about trying rodi water and see if that helps. A 2 degree temp swing can't be the problem.

Just to play devils advocate a bit...

Where do you buy your livestock?

Do you ever ask how long it has been in the store before purchase?

Do you know what salinity or other parameters the store keeps their stuff at?

Corals are the pickiest creatures in our aquariums so water quality issues "should" affect them first but unfortunately there are many things in tap water we don't test for so with that comes many uncertainties and unknowns... There may be something in the water that only affects the livestock other than corals but we wouldn't know without a full range water test... That's the reason to start trying to use RODI because we know it is pure water and removes the water quality unknowns and uncertainties. (FYI I started my tank on tap water so I have been there too. The RODI is SO worth the money)

Fargo really doesn't have many places to choose from as far as livestock purchases. Usually if you don't buy something here in Fargo when they get the order in you don't get it cause it is gone within the first day.

Yes that I know for a fact, but one thing to keep in mind is the stress from shipping, then getting acclimated the first time, only to get acclimated again in the same day... lots of stress for the livestock in one day for sure...

What place in Fargo do you usually get your stuff at?

Do you quarantine your livestock before introducing them to your tank?

I get my livestock from in the mall. Great pets never has much for salt water and he usually asks a outrageous price for it.
I don't quarantine my live stock i usually add them pretty close to the lights going out on the tank.

Yeah Shaun has the healthiest and most reasonably priced stuff in Fargo... I have only lost one thing within a few days from that store other than the stuff my damsel killed...

Do you still have damsels?

Try the RODI... Shaun will sell 5 gallon buckets of the RODI water, just bring in a bucket. I did that when I filled my tank at the new place as I just couldn't make enough water fast enough.

Great pets and K9 suck i would never give them a dollar ! Shaun is the only guy in fargo i would go to ! Although he does use copper at moment in his fish system ! I am a firm believer in stores running Microb-lift herbtana in their tanks as fish are way less stressed! And it is reef safe! I recommended hertana to him so who knows He may run it soon to ! But he always has a good selection and keeps prices down ! As far as acclimation of new things I just float bag for a while to get up to temp empty water from bag as may contain copper or other undesirables. Then i add whatever to my tank I do this with everything and never have a problem ! In my opinion drip is only necessary if they have been in shipping for 24 hours ! but that's just me we all do things different whatever works 4 you ! I really dont ever have any issues with livestock not liking my proceed-ore I have even fallowed that method for things i have gotten shipped in with no problems !

U could Quarintine but since herbtana hit market i dont worry about it as i can treat my whole tank and not worry about hurting corals and i actually get results ! Ha I sound like a spokes person LOL! It is some good stuff though !

Hey Shane: who is Herb Tana? haha, going to the google now.

What is the copper based stuff that he uses?

I don't not have the damels anymore. I have not had the best of luck with the livestock from there, but it maybe something I am doing. I had a fish only tank set up for three years a couple years back and had no issues at all.

I don't remember for sure what copper based treatment her uses in the tanks. I would be a bit worried about the Microb-lift herbtana as there are many "miracle cures" that are said to be reef safe that have been the direct cause of a tank crash... This is the first time I have heard about this product so it must be fairly new. Does the bottle have the active ingredient? Does it smel like Garlic?

Reefer, you are having odd issues for sure. Hopefully some of the suggestions can help determine the issue.

OrangeBB, that will work fine for the fish in a store system where the parameters are close to your tank's parameters. Unfortunately you don't always know the store's numbers so it is safer to drip to prevent the shock caused by rapid changes in salinity. Not saying it won't work, but if the store runs their tank much lower you'll end up with issues. Shaun's are usualy at 1.020 - 1.024 if I remember correctly. DeathCo runs theirs at 1.018 or lower...

cdness wrote:I don't remember for sure what copper based treatment her uses in the tanks. I would be a bit worried about the Microb-lift herbtana as there are many "miracle cures" that are said to be reef safe that have been the direct cause of a tank crash... This is the first time I have heard about this product so it must be fairly new. Does the bottle have the active ingredient? Does it smel like Garlic?

Reefer, you are having odd issues for sure. Hopefully some of the suggestions can help determine the issue.

OrangeBB, that will work fine for the fish in a store system where the parameters are close to your tank's parameters. Unfortunately you don't always know the store's numbers so it is safer to drip to prevent the shock caused by rapid changes in salinity. Not saying it won't work, but if the store runs their tank much lower you'll end up with issues. Shaun's are usualy at 1.020 - 1.024 if I remember correctly. DeathCo runs theirs at 1.018 or lower...

I am speaking from first hand experience with herbtana it boosts fishs immune system instead of killing ich as if ick has no host it will die off any way at least to eceptable levels as ick is always present in tanks ! It is if fish are healthy enough to fight it off !u dont have to try herbtana if u dont want to but I use it when indroducing new fish and back it up 100% I have many speciesof coral in my tank and nothing cares when i am using herbtana sps and others grow while using it so obviously they dont mind it! read up on it good product with superb resullts fish stores dont really want u to know about it as they wouldn't have as much biss ! No Garlic smell more like ucaliptis ! It has been on market for about 3 to 4 years i just heard about it a year ago when i started my tank back up I have used as suggested on container directions 5 times now when I have added new fish and 1 bad ick outbreak ! Just figured every one Knew about it guess not well take it for what its worth I like it ! I have also fallowed my float and drop method for 6 years with minimul probs but maybe im wierd LOL who knows ! But as i said we all do things different ! Oh and also as i said i used that method for many orders of inverts and fish were i had no clue of there salinity !

"MICROBE-LIFT/Herbtana
is a unique, herbal,
immune-enhancing stimulant, which reduces: skin flukes
(gyrodactylus), gill flukes (Dactylogyrus), Ich
(ichthyophthirius multifillis), oodinum, costia (ichthyobodo
necater), chilonella and trichodina. Parasite infections are
characterized by symptoms, such as: milky skin, flashing
and heavy breathing. However, they can only be diagnosed
with certainty through microscopic examination.
Naturaly controlled by the fish’s immune system, parasites
are present on most fish in very low levels at all times. When
stress levels increase, the ability of the immune system to
respond to its requirement to control the natural level of
parasites is directly affected. This poor response allows
parasites to increase in number, thus causing any of the
serious, above mentioned health issues in the host fish.
MICROBE-LIFT/Herbtana supports the fish’s immune
system, driving off the excess parasites. Since they cannot
return to the fish during that treatment, the majority of the
parasites will starve without a host. So, although MICROBELIFT/
Herbtana does not directly kill parasites, it is
ultimately responsible for their death."

P.s. Shaun has a nice Blue angel 4 sale !!!

LOL he likes coral though !